Taos, New Mexico
Not resolved
36 comments

I am a teacher and I have been working on a 6-month project to bring a new class to our local public school. I had purchased from this seller tlj_emporium (aka: Tammy Jensen) before and had no issues with the 18 Refractory Bricks they sent me. I wasn't worried about purchasing more because they discounted me and the bricks came with no damage. Also, they told me that if there were damaged bricks and it was because of them packaging improperly, that they would send replacements. Well I ordered double the last order and almost all the bricks (23 out of 36) were broken and/or unusable. I went ahead (to be nice) and sent them money to cover reshipping of the replacement bricks. Well now they refuse to do anything unless I pay to send them back and pay them to reship me the replacements. And they tried to trick me out of the money I had sent them to pay for shipping the new bricks.

They specifically said:

We will replace the bricks in the event they were damaged due to our packing

The first box they sent had each brick separately protected with cardboard reinforcements so they were not touching each other and so they would hold up to bring shipped across country. The next two boxes sent had these VERY fragile bricks stacked on top of each other and with no protection between each other. They would have broken if they were set down on a table without the person treating them as if they were a box full of lightbulbs.

I am now responsible for paying back the school all of the money used to fund the project ($3500 to be exact) from the PTA. And I will lose my job.

They knew my situation and said they will not do anything unless I send them the broken bricks and then pay for the shipping of the replacement bricks back to me. And to get them to even agree to that was hours and hours of back and forth. They knew my time frame and that I only had so much time to compete this and they agreed to send me replacements on their dime if it was their fault. They not only didn't protect the boxes but used a different service because they said it was "cheaper" and failed to tell me that there was only a $10 difference. This order was $200+ and all I got was two boxes of broken bricks. I honestly think they sent these bricks already broken to me so they could rip me off. They are one of those Sellers that won't accept anything less than a penny of what they asked if they were selling a $250,000 car. And they will fight you for every last penny. It took me 4 hours to get them to refund me the extra money I sent them for the replacements that I thought they were going to send because they gave me their word. And I sent them that money to try and help them out because I knew that these broken bricks would cause them loss to replace. After they refused to keep their word, it seemed more and more like they sent these bricks to me like this so they could get rid of them and leave me screwed. They were responsible for the shipping back of the replacements and the replacements (like they said).

I made a whole album on Picasa with detailed pictures of all the busted bricks and they still didn't care.

Their PayPal: jensenemporium@att.net

Monetary Loss: $250.

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Anonymous
#839777

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL, HA,HA, HA,HA, The government as a hard enough trouble protecting our border line down here in NM to worry about a box of brick !!!!!! You people are Funny Keep Going!!! LOL LOL LOL HA HA HA HA

Anonymous
#839697

Whoops! our

Anonymous
#839695

Jenny,

We do not care if you do or don't remove your posting on this site or others, it's a free country.Having said that, what you have just posted and giving us an ultimatum is Extortion and is a criminal offense.You don't get it, we are trying to work this out for you, not so you will remove the bashing from this site or because you are trying to scare us by hazardous material or the make-believe postmaster.

We are not going to send you replacement brick, so keep you appointment with the postmaster and file your complaint, just remember you purchased and paid the shipping and received the packages which makes you just as guilty if laws were broken. Do you really think people are ***. Sorry we could not work this out.

Are correspondence are done, We will be turning this over to are legal department.Thank You Tammy J

jedson
to MAKING _THINGS _RIGHT Taos, New Mexico, United States #839724

Posting factual information on the internet is not against the law.Unless you live in another country.

I have factual proof of every single thing I have said.

Which is why I am not afraid of your threats.

I will state here so everyone can see that I will no longer be accepting a solution to this situation. I am going to be taking legal action and my family's (in-laws) attorney will now be directly dealing with anything concerning this. I will be flying to California next week with accompanying documents from Federal and State complaints against you. I am already at the Post Office Waiting for HazMAT to arrive and follow me back our house.

Local and Federal complaints have been filed already by the post master here and you will be hearing from my attorneys (one fed, one state) very soon.

In have already explained my story to the police and a federal police officer here.

They said that as long as I have proof of the damage, these reports, and all of the email, eBay messages and any other communications saved, that I can file complaints anywhere on the interent , as many times as I want and for as long as I want. I can post anything (including feelings) on any truthful matter (especially that I am a part of and am witness to) anywhere I want and as long as I want. Unless the information is copyrighted or been sealed by a sector of the goverment. I am protected by the First Amendment and the "The Free Press Clause" and can stand...

These are my sole opinions on a factual matter (with documentation) and I can, as anyone else can, until they are deemed false.

Have a good one y'all, and thank you for the help (Mainly Ricochet Rabbit and the-PostMaster4) and advice.

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Ricochet-Rabbit
Santa Clara, New Mexico, United States #839681

Some of you guys are really grasping at straws with the hazardous material claims.

Yes, they contain crystalline silica.It's also in your concrete floors/walls, kitchen and bath counter tops, floor tiles, sand at the beach and countless other items.

Grind or smash any of these items up and they produce the same small health hazard.

If the bricks were crushed into a powder and sweeping was required, they recommend a dust suppressant.

I'm also sure the dust suppressant used will have an MSDS too.

If I were to send someone a TV, do I need a hazardous warning and MSDS sheet included with it?After all, there are certain components inside that contain crystalline silica along with other hazards such as oil in the capacitors.

cal_PostMaster4
to Ricochet-Rabbit #839707

The Crystalline Silica is only about 5% of the issue when it comes to bricks like these.I have dealt with them many times.

It is the other raw materials that combined can cause serious injury and or death. Fused, Hydrated, Calcined and any other type or mixture of Alumina Oxide is the real danger. And where they leak out during travel is even more of a concern. With the machinery, cars, and planes we use in the Postal Service, this could cause disasters, explosions.

And could be spread through other mail in a way we wouldn't be able to detect. Then a package gets dropped off at place where they also process chemical or materials and mixes in with there broken or leaking boxes. You know what I mean. Although the Silica is an issue and is dangerous, it is the chemistry and mixture of the materials that pose a threat.

Most importantly the processed alumina oxides and binders (phosphates, leads, etc).

You are right. But a TV doesn't contain billions of tiny particles (many microscopic and can be passed through a filter). And the Aluminum Oxides, Calcines Aluminas and most importantly the Fused Alumina and Hydrates are the the most dangerous parts of these bricks. The silica is hazardous, but nothing like the rest.

If a semi full of a few tons of TVs crashes off of a bridge into a lake, that is very very bad and the lake would be deemed polluted for cleanup. But if a semi full of these bricks did the same, well the outcome could be 100...

Like you said, there are many things cibtaing hazardous materials that do not call for an MSDS.

How I feel, well I think they are a little overkill for the majority of regular consumer good.

And again, I totally agree with you. And things shouldn't only be pointed at from this point of view. I am just stating factual laws and what I know.

I am not on anyone's side or rooting for anyone. I am just trying to pint out the facts and what should be done to squash this and what could happen if it is not smashed quickly. I gave mostly info for Jenny because I didn't want to talk about something (like messages between two people on eBay and whatever else), that i didnt know squat about.

I personally think they both deserve a chance to fix this. Jenny and her friend (or whoever helped pay) have already put money out there and ended up with the worst possible scenario.

She should have specified more and asked more questions. The seller feels as if they did their job and held up their part. But obviously the packages sent the second time were not taken care of like the first. And were not insured for their value, which I believe is a huge issue.

Jenny should have asked to make sure, but she didn't. The seller has the money from Jenny already and Jenny also paid for the shipping. So the seller got paid. My opinion is that the Seller should pay for the shipping to ship the replacements and that they should ship Jenny the new replacements out right away and make sure they are packaged with care, but most of all insured correctly and have proper hazardous material warning literature.

Once Jenny receives the replacements, she should get a voucher for free shipping (as she has already paid once) or pay for the shipping herself and send the broken materials back to the Seller within a timely manner. She has already put up a lot of money and has taken a chance that ended up not being in her favor. The Seller just has to document her saying she will send the damaged items back through eBay.

All of it should be communicated through eBay so that it is recorded.But I believe that due to the nature of what happened, the Seller agreeing to replace the items right away, the packaging between the bricks lacking in the 2nd shipment, and the lack of insurance, that the Seller needs to step forward and make things right with Jenny so that she may turn around and do the same to mend this.

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Anonymous
#839668

cal_postmaster4,

Thank you for your concern, but like we mention before, alumina is not a hazardous material.We are not just some person selling refractory on eBay that purchased it at a yard sale.

We have been in the business for 30 years, and yes there are some kiln refractory and fiber board that is hazardous, this is not. We attend yearly training on Hazardous Materials which include MSDS training, MSDS are in the process of being standardized. Anyone can get a MSDS for alumina online. We have a company and we ship a lot of different material around the world, so we have to be trained in export compliance also.

Thank you again for your concern and advice cal_postmaster4 in Albuquerque NM. As far as the situation with Jenny, she will have to return the broken brick for a refund.

We are going to contact the post office in Taos NM and file a claim, maybe she can get money's back on the damaged shipments.We will supply the post office with photos, we record all packaging of shipments for this reason.

Thank You, Tammy J

cal_PostMaster4
to MAKING_THINGS_RIGHT #839718

Alumina is a hazardous material in its raw state and must be accompanied by an MSDS.I was wrong about the having to let the Post Office know before you ship it (for some states).

But alumina in its raw form or in a simple bonded form must carry its MSDS material sheet. I just made a phone call and confirmed this Federal Law.

I have to been to conferences concerning hazardous materials and waste. At least once a month over the past ten years. I know what I know when it comes to the United States Postal Service.

I am sorry to inform you, but I have seen and dealt with situations that were exactly the same in nature as this one.

What I said was the possibilities.

What it comes down to is if you are willing to make things right with this person and tale care of your customers.

She paid for something that she received in a state that was not her fault, or yours. But because she could not right then and there trade them in and get replacements from USPS or you with out having ri fork out even more money, well that is just not right.

Even though you didn't break the bricks, the packaging was hurried it sound like and was not insured to reflect the parcel's value.

The value meaning the price it would cost to replace the items from anyone selling the items at a fair price. And because of this, I do not think it is fair for her to have to fork out anymore and have to chance anything. Send her the replacements, she...

What it comes down to is that someone has to put their knock out. The buyers have to do that with every purchase. They pay for something thatbtheybwont get until later. They are trusting the seller.

She shouldn't have to again. And if it was me selling, I would feel the same way, but end up sending out replacements. Why, because its the right thing to do. Because while she might not get the bricks ever, these reviews stay on the internet forever and it wouldn't be worth ruining my good name.

And I wouldn't want to have to deal with the EPA, GSA, USPS, going to court or paying fines. If all you want is the bricks back, then send her the replacements and she will send you them like she said. Think about the consequences of her actions if she didn't? After all these complaints being files on different sites for opinions?

The other ones have her full name and picture and I even cross checked them with her FB. I am starting to feel like my input isn't wanted, and that is fine. I am just stating my own personal experiences and laws I have had to obide by for over a decade. There was one mistake about flying these materials, and I am sorry.

The state I worked in had state specific ordinances that were different than some other's. But everything else is factual of the USPS. UPS and FedEx have some opposing rules because they are not all USPS owned or operated. I really hope you work this out.

Moving on to another post.You can come to my website too at XXXXXXXXXXXX to hear the thoughts of other retirees on matters of the US Postal Service.

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Anonymous
Rocklin, California, United States #839517

Whoops, Manager

cal_PostMaster4
to MAKING_THINGS_RIGHT Albuquerque, New Mexico, United States #839588

*** TJ Emporium and Jenny ***

I would first like to say that I feel for you both.Both of you should have done a lot of things differently.

And I do not mean to attack anyone by posting this, I am only stating the Facts here.

I am confirming the information about the information concerning Hazardous Materials and MSDS Paperwork that another user had posted. It is against the law for anyone to send or transport anything that contains hazardous materials. I am unsure the exact location of this eBay Seller, but if this Seller is based in or sending these materials from within the state of California then they have a lot more to worry about then just the USPS Federal Laws and the GSA. California requires anyone sending or transporting hazardous materials like these to also attach a California Warning for the box because it "contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects,..." and so on.

I am sure you have seen many of these labels on things. California is so anal about these that they are required to be on things that are barely an issue. If there was no MSDS then I am sure there was no California Warning labels. And because these were sent out of California and transported through the state of California they would have been required By Law.

*USPS Stuff- They need to have the MSDS sheets in them in the event of an accident.

Broken boxes resulting in chemical spills or leaking of chemical...

With chemicals like these, the container needs to be treated like they were explosives or gases. From reading your story I see that the box was also damaged which wouldn't have been the case if the Post Office was properly notified of the box containing hazardous materials in addition to the MSDS.

*All you need to do is make two phone calls-

- Call this number firsts to report the chemical spill- XXX-XXX-XXXX - Call USPS (XXX-XXX-XXXX) to set-up an appointment with your Post Master. *Then- - The Post Master will call HazMAT or a similar service (trust me, I just recently retired from being Post Master 2 months ago). - Once the HazMAT team determines the chemical spill (the word "spill" means any type of leak in this case), they will contact local government authorities to set-up a meeting with you where you will be appointed a government contracted attorney at no charge to represent you in your case.

- The EPA and GSA will also get involved in addition to the list above of people and agencies contacted. - This will not cost you a dime, and your costs for anything like gas, food or travel will be covered. In a case like this what would most likely happen would be that eBay would be called in due to the nature of the purchase. If they haven't already, they would have suspended the seller's account and informed them of the charges.

eBay would have made a statement and passed it on to the seller who was the one who failed to abide by these state, federal and local laws. Now the seller would not get anything but a slap on the wrist and a hefty fine. Most likely in the $25k-150 range but it could me more. This would all be over a series of months.

But eBay would permanently ban the seller from eBay and this individual would have their names and information listed publicly for these charges. Nothing like jail or prison time would happen unless this was a reoccurring action. ****Now you might ask yourself how I know all of these Laws and Facts**** It is because i myself have actually witnessed about 2 two dozens of these types of scenarios over the past decade while being a Post Master. *To the Seller- You need to apologize to Jenny and be sure that you will fix this situation by satisfying her needs.

In the event that you take my advice, I would suggest replacing both boxes but this time making sure you (at the very least) include an up-to-date MSDS Publication inside the boxes (one in each). You should package hazardous materials very carefully any-ways- just because they are hazardous materials. It is hard to admit we are wrong or in the wrong. Nobody likes to admit their own shortcomings or wrongs, but in a case like this I promise you that you will be avoiding a tsunami of fines and embarrassment.

*To Buyer- Let the seller contact you and clear this up. Afterwards, have this (and all of the other forums you have posted on) removed or change it to make things right.

People make mistakes.After you recive the replacements, do the seller a favor and maybe write them an outstanding review somewhere.

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